[PODCAST] BOLD THINKERS EPISODE 2: Mumbai's Urban Laboratory: Where Innovation Meets 20 Million Dreams

This 2nd episode of HEC Bold Thinkers Podcast delves into four critical opportunities facing Mumbai: bridging socioeconomic divides, leveraging business potential, maintaining social connections, and addressing climate change vulnerabilities. Experts highlight the city's remarkable resilience, innovative spirit, and potential for sustainable development, emphasizing the importance of understanding local nuances to tackle urban challenges effectively.

Hosted by Fatou Ndiaye,  this episode brings together diverse perspectives from an academic, a business leader, and an MBA student, all working towards Mumbai’s transformation.

• Sumeet Anand, a uniquely globally minded business leader and strategy advisor, former CEO, President of the France India Foundation and HEC Alumnus. He shares insights on Mumbai's $50 billion development vision and investment opportunities; 
• Professor Anupama Rao who holds several prestigious roles at Barnard and Columbia University.  She is a tenured professor of History with special interests including caste and race, comparative urbanism and human rights. She is also the Director of the Institute of Comparative Literature at Columbia, convenor of the Ambedkar Initiative, and served as Senior Editor of Comparative Studies in South Asia, Africa and Middle East from 2012-2021. She provides a deep historical context and examines the city's complex social fabric;
• Rohan Agarwal, a structural engineer, an entrepreneur and an Excellence Scholar & MBA candidate at HEC Paris. He highlights grassroots initiatives tackling environmental challenges, including the remarkable story of Dharavi's billion-dollar recycling economy.

Together, they discuss Mumbai’s economic influence, historical evolution, and social disparities. They highlight the city’s role as India’s financial hub while addressing the stark contrast between wealth and poverty. Informal economies and creative industries play a crucial role despite urban inequalities.

They also examine the impact of rapid urbanization on infrastructure, the environment, and social cohesion.

Climate change threats, including rising sea levels, are key concerns. Experts emphasize the need for sustainable development, inclusive policies, and resilience to secure Mumbai’s future.

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TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to BOLD Thinkers. I'm Fatou Ndiaye, and in the second episode, we take you to the heart of Mumbai, India's vibrant commercial and financial capital.

Mumbai is a megacity that defies definition. It's a city of contrasts, blending modernity with a rich cultural heritage, where million-dollar apartments share space with colonial-era architecture and sprawling informal settlements—sometimes referred to as slums—where creativity, pulsating energy, and resilience coexist.

You're listening to BOLD Thinkers, a podcast series dedicated to voices from places where critical sustainability issues are most pressing. The objective of this podcast is to bring these voices to the forefront of thinking, planning, and action for today's leaders. Each episode, we'll explore a different megacity, meeting some of its trailblazers.

Today, we're going to explore Mumbai through different perspectives, shared with us by three expert speakers.

The business perspective will be brought to us by Sumeet Anand, a uniquely global-minded business leader and strategy advisor, former CEO, President of the France India Foundation, and an HEC Paris Business School alumnus.

The academic point of view will be provided by Anupama Rao. Professor Rao holds several prestigious roles at Barnard and Columbia University. She is a tenured professor of history with special interests including caste and race, comparative urbanism, and human rights. She is also the Director of the Institute of Comparative Literature at Columbia, Convener of the Ambedkar Initiative, and served as Senior Editor-Director of Comparative Studies in South Asia, Africa, and the Middle East from 2012 to 2021.

Last but not least, we will hear from Rohan Agarwal, a structural engineer, entrepreneur, and an excellent scholar, as well as an MBA candidate at HEC Paris Business School.
 

Understanding Mumbai’s Rich History

In order to understand Mumbai, it is important to recognize its rich history. The city's evolution laid the powerful groundwork for Indian innovation and industry. Professor Rao provides us with highlights on Mumbai’s role as a strategic hub of trade, focusing on the 19th century.

Professor Rao

Mumbai has a very long history. It's, of course, a very important city for the British. It's a major hub for the British colonial empire, as you've noted. But Mumbai also has a much longer history as a port city and as a critical part of the Indian Ocean trading network, which is many, many hundreds of years old. So Mumbai's history—and if I can come to the 19th and the 20th century—is a complicated one. It's part of a trading network, as I've said. But the city also becomes very important in the mid-19th century, in the context of the American Civil War. As there is a trade embargo on cotton, preventing shipments from leaving New Orleans and entering the rest of the global economy, Mumbai begins to rise. Then, Mumbai itself becomes a major center for textiles, for the manufacturing of textiles, and for the textile mills that really start mushrooming from the middle of the 19th century. This is a city of capital, mill owners, and new textile mills and towers, which are now dotting the landscape.

Fatou Ndiaye

Today, Mumbai is a capital of immigration, capital, and labor. Let me share a few facts to put this into perspective. Mumbai is responsible for approximately 6% to 7% of India's GDP, while it only houses 1.5% of its population. This illustrates its disproportionately high output.

In addition, it is responsible for 70% of India’s maritime trade and drives 25% of the country's total industrial output. This phenomenal economic growth has been accompanied by exponential demographic growth. Today, more than 20 million people reside in Mumbai.

Because Mumbai is a city of dreams and endless opportunities, approximately 3 million people commute into the city for work each day. This trend is accelerating. By 2050, Mumbai’s population is projected to reach 42 million, further amplifying its status as one of the most populated and dynamic megacities in the world.

This multidimensional momentum brings real challenges, including:Housing shortages, Strained infrastructure,Rising inequalities, and The escalation of vulnerability to climate change. All of these issues need to be urgently addressed.Let's hear from our speakers on what it will take to tackle these challenges and unlock Mumbai’s full potential in sustainable ways.
 

Opportunity #1: The East vs. West Divide
 

The city's layout and social dynamics are a particularly important dimension to consider when thinking about social and environmental sustainability. Let me set the stage. Mumbai is built on a long, narrow peninsula. It stretches approximately 22 kilometers from north to south and is almost entirely surrounded by water, although it is connected to the mainland on one side. It is a city that is very densely populated. Its marked East-West divide, clearly visible from aerial photos, is a significant characteristic of the city's geography and development.

Fatou Ndiaye

You actually also have a geospatial order in the city, where the western side has tended to be more developed. It’s the place where elites live—upper-middle classes, certainly the wealthy, the aristocracy, and both the old and new emerging aristocracy have tended to reside along the western side of the island. The eastern side of the city has historically been the laboring area. This is also where the dockyards were located and where we see a large number of so-called slums and informal settlements.

It’s also a place of immigration, constantly experiencing different movements of people coming from the surrounding areas of Bombay, as well as from the south and north of the country. It is a city of migrants. This shapes, I think, Mumbai’s peculiar architecture, infrastructure, and social life. It is a city of distinctive neighborhoods and diverse communities. It is a multi-religious, multi-ethnic space where neighborhoods sit cheek by jowl—Muslim neighborhoods alongside others, impoverished informal settlements next to brand-new high-rise towers of steel and glass.

Mumbai is a city where vibrant and unique diversity exists. Rohan, who has studied this aspect of Mumbai, shared insightful perspectives.

Nearly half of Mumbai’s population lives in informal settlements. Mumbai has Dharavi, the largest slum in Asia, where more than a million people reside in an extremely dense environment.

Professor Rao indicates that while a deep interdependence between East and West forms the lifeblood of Mumbai, the informal city has overtaken the formal, becoming the driving force behind much of the growth and innovation. This is too often not understood.

Professor Rao

I think there is also this idea that informality becomes a stigmatizing or somewhat derogatory term, suggesting that people need to transition from the informal to the formal. But of course, we are confronted with both a logical and a sociological puzzle here, because most of the city is dominated by the informal sector. For business leaders, enlightened government officials, administrators, and technocrats, one of the things that really ought to be done is to stop thinking about the informal areas of the city merely as places for sourcing cheap labor.

Fatou Ndiaye

The east of the city is where many of the less desirable activities are concentrated, including waste dumping, waste management, and meat butchery. This is a place that can be very harsh but also holds significant political power. Many key social movements have originated here. It is also an area targeted for ambitious real estate development due to the city’s increasing overcrowding. Professor Rao suggests that this dynamic must be carefully considered to ensure that the audacity and vibrancy of this area are preserved in the process.

Professor Rao

People who live in these settlements have a very keen sense of face-to-face contact. These are rich, resonant, and dense neighborhoods. One of the things we should consider is how to further enable and structure these so-called informal housing areas in ways that can also provide public services, accessibility, and amenities. This includes everything from the provision of toilets and public spaces to rethinking housing types and forms that may not traditionally be prized but have functioned as vital and enabling modes of habitation for people in these localities.

Fatou Ndiaye

Mumbai’s East-West divide is a complex interplay of geography, economics, and social factors that influence the lives of its residents. It is crucial that investors and business leaders contribute to bridging the divide and consider a more balanced and human-centered approach to development.
 

Opportunity #2: Business Leaders

Mumbai has developed and intentionally designed a robust and sophisticated ecosystem that provides a wealth of opportunities for companies looking to expand or invest in India. It houses the Bombay Stock Exchange, the Reserve Bank of India, and the Indian headquarters of numerous multinational corporations. Plus, of course, its port, which is located on the east of the city. Furthermore, as Sumeet explains, Mumbai is a city with a vision, clear objectives, and defined timelines.

Sumeet Anand

It's a city with huge aspirations in a country with huge aspirations. We’re a country that is the fifth-largest economy in the world, moving to become the third-largest in the next five to seven years. We’re a country that has been growing at 6% for the last 30 years, and so has the city of Mumbai. It will continue to grow at 6-7.9% for the next 10 years. It’s a country that is going to double its income per capita. The GDP per capita in India is $2,500, while Mumbai is at double that, at $5,000. This is expected to increase to $10,000 per capita, reaching a middle-income country status similar to other nations we often think about, like Thailand or Brazil.

Mumbai is a city in motion, and therefore, there’s a lot happening. It’s in that critical phase of a city’s growth, and the challenge is to cater to that economic opportunity while simultaneously improving the quality of life and giving urban development the focus it may have lacked in previous decades.

Fatou Ndiaye

The business opportunities are enormous, but it is important that companies carefully think through their go-to-market strategy.

Sumeet Anand

What’s important is to understand Indian realities—to cater to premium demand, which is not necessarily about being cheap. I think people often get this wrong. There is a low-income opportunity, a mid-market opportunity, and an emerging and fast-growing premium opportunity. If you understand how you need to adapt to emerging countries, I believe India represents one of the largest urban opportunities at scale in the world today. It is a country that is open, democratic, and welcoming to foreign investors. It is also very close to the West, particularly to France.

I think there are huge opportunities for corporations and entrepreneurs to invest in and build large businesses in India now. But the key is to understand how you fit into the "India story." In the case of Mumbai, there is a "Mumbai story" that I’ve partly outlined. If you want to operate here, you must understand what policymakers and residents are looking for and position yourself as someone contributing to that vision. If you do that, you will be seen as local. And if you are local, you will be far more appreciated.

Fatou Ndiaye

Mumbai receives the largest amount of foreign investment of any city in India. Large investments are being made to prepare the city for its future by a variety of stakeholders, including different Indian government bodies, private investors, and international organizations. Sumeet provided valuable insight into the scale of these efforts.

Sumeet Anand

Actually, the ongoing investments amount to, precisely, $50 billion. This process started about nine years ago. India is a democracy, and like every democracy, it requires political vision to focus on a project, as well as political stability and the ability to execute. We all know the challenges that come with democracy.

This $50 billion investment plan was laid out in 2015 in a war room run by the Chief Minister of Maharashtra, the state in which Mumbai is located. Many of these projects are ongoing. They are running a few years behind schedule, but they are progressing.

I’ll give you a few examples. There is a 337-kilometer Metro construction project currently underway. This alone represents a $17 billion investment. It will be a fully developed city-wide network, similar to those found in developed countries. As of now, one-third is operational, and half is under construction. Additionally, a $10 billion coastal road project is being developed to improve connectivity. Mumbai is an island, a narrow one that then widens up slightly into an inverted triangle.

Fatou Ndiaye

I was particularly interested in an example that Sumeet shared to illustrate how global businesses can succeed in India by creating systemic value. He focused on Schneider Electric, which has a significant presence in India, providing energy management and automation across various sectors.

Sumeet Anand

The case of Mumbai, as I mentioned, presents a great opportunity for companies and entrepreneurs with technology, know-how, and expertise—especially those who have successfully operated in other global cities—to build businesses in India.

Take Schneider Electric, for example. They acquired one of India’s leading electrical companies, a division of the L&T Group based in Mumbai. Schneider Electric is a great case study because India is now their third-largest market in the world. If you look at their portfolio, they offer products that cater to low-income consumers, the aspirational middle class, and corporate projects. Companies like Schneider and others have demonstrated how to build businesses that cater to different segments of the market.

What’s crucial is understanding Indian realities. Interestingly, India has a law that requires all companies earning above a certain profit threshold to contribute 2% of their profits to corporate social responsibility initiatives. Some initially viewed this as a strategic burden, but in a country like India—where social challenges span across class, religion, caste, and issues such as poverty, rural distress, and lack of education—it has actually created an opportunity. It has provided a pool of philanthropic capital and has encouraged corporations to become better citizens.

Fatou Ndiaye

We have explored how entering the Mumbai market can be facilitated by understanding local regulations, market dynamics, and cultural nuances, and by aligning business objectives with Mumbai’s vision and ambition. By actively participating in and contributing to this vision, companies can play a role in shaping a more sustainable and just future.

This brings us to another essential question: How can Mumbai ensure that it preserves and nourishes its connections and inclusivity as it rapidly moves forward?
 

Opportunity #3: Social Connections

People shape cities, but ultimately, cities also shape people. By facilitating diverse interactions and creating physical spaces where people can connect, cities play a vital role in building social ties and a vibrant urban culture. This is how empathy and social bonds are formed. It is therefore crucial that Mumbai ensures spaces for interaction and connection are not lost amid development. What will it take? Professor Rao offered common-sense advice.

Professor Rao

The very first step might simply be to say: experience the social unevenness of the city. Go to the east, visit these informal areas, walk through the city. Jump onto a train, get on a bus, and see how long it takes you to move through the city. Then sit in a car and observe how alienating it feels, because this is still a city where people are happy to talk, where there is so much life out on the streets. Maybe that’s where the sense of investment should start.

But I also think that people who are technocrats, people who invest in business and think at scale, have an enormous responsibility—yet also a great opportunity—to rethink and envision new kinds of practices, whether they are…

Fatou Ndiaye

She goes on to share compelling reflections on topics critical to Mumbai’s social fabric—issues that should not be overlooked.

Professor Rao

Public spaces are being taken over in a number of ways. For instance, a company might come in and say, “I’m going to maintain this public park.” But what they then do is redesign the park in a way that is deeply exclusive. It’s good for people who go jogging. It’s good for people who look like you and me. But it’s not good for people who are impoverished and simply want to sit on a park bench. It’s not good for those who are unhoused and need a place to rest.

There are various sartorial, social, and visual markers of exclusion that are increasingly privatizing even the few public spaces that exist across the city.

Fatou Ndiaye

To build a truly livable city, there must be a commitment to designing spaces where people from all walks of life can come together, connect, and share experiences. Professor Rao draws inspiration from European cities as she imagines what could be.

Professor Rao

Where do we create what has long existed in European cities—a commitment to both social housing and to a way of enabling the human body to engage with various forms of pleasure? Museums that are free. Parks and parklands where anybody can go, sit, and have a picnic.

Fatou Ndiaye

There are, of course, a great number of truly human-centered spaces in Mumbai, where people from across the city and beyond come together—both intentionally and organically. One example that was mentioned is the enormous and bustling Dadar Flower Market, one of the biggest in India. It not only sells flowers but also serves as a social hub, where vendors and customers interact on a more equal footing, sharing stories and experiences.

This is where investors, artists, innovators, and tourists alike can gain unique insights into the pulse of Mumbai. Places like this must be protected to preserve the beautiful soul of the city.

This brings us to another pressing concern: Mumbai’s vulnerability to climate change and the urgent need for ecological resilience in the face of rising sea levels and other environmental threats.
 

Opportunity #4: Climate Change

Mumbai, which could be described as an urbanized island on the Arabian Sea, is uniquely vulnerable to climate change. Professor Rao sheds light on the precarious balance that defines Mumbai's geography.

Professor Rao

Bombay itself, as I said before, stands on reclaimed land. There are seven islands that are connected by reclaimed land. The city itself is a city that has, I think, an unrecognized or an underexplored relationship to water.

The sea, the water, is really very, very much present. You've got a landmass that's surrounded by fragile mangroves. You see lots and lots of green. There are things sprouting in every part of the city because when it gets wet and during the monsoons, the city is a space of wetness and water.

You also begin to see that people are encroaching on somewhat precarious land at times. It is a city where the Kolis, the fishermen who are the original inhabitants of Bombay, are very much present to this day. It can get a rather precarious livelihood.

Fatou Ndiaye

Rohan highlights the alarming loss of wetlands.

Rohan Agarwal

There has been rapid urbanization going on in Mumbai. What has happened because of this? 40% of Mumbai's mangrove cover has been lost in the past 30 years itself. All for what? Just to make roads, real estate, industries, etc.

The biggest wealth of Mumbai is its wetlands. These were the city's natural drainage system. They are being encroached on every single day. Right now, if I say roughly for the past 40 years, 70 to 75% of the wetlands have been encroached upon, and the rivers, the rainfall, has no place to naturally drain. All they do is clog the streets of Mumbai now.

In fact, I remember reading about a study once where famous places in Mumbai—the most famous Marine Drive, places like Colaba and the Gateway of India—could very well be underwater by 2050.

Fatou Ndiaye

Mumbai's rapid development is driving both alarming ecological degradation and habitat loss. Rohan elaborated on their importance.

Rohan Agarwal

These mangroves were a natural barrier to prevent floods and to stop seawater from seeping through the ground and entering the streets of Mumbai. Those are being lost every single day.

 

Fatou Ndiaye

The expansion of much-needed infrastructure projects has led to the destruction of vital wetland areas that serve as natural flood buffers. Mangroves, which provide coastal protection and carbon sequestration, have also been adversely affected due to pollution and infrastructure encroachments. Reflecting on this, Professor Rao poses critical questions.

Professor Rao

How do we really think about protecting those mangroves? How do we re-green? How do we begin to think about the edges of the city—the borders surrounding the city—as absolutely critical? How do we actually re-green city spaces by creating that link to the sea?

Fatou Ndiaye

While these systemic changes cannot solely rely on neighborhood action groups, grassroots efforts are already making an impact. Rohan highlighted several initiatives that are fighting back against these challenges.

Rohan Agarwal

I'll give you an example of Versova Mangroves. What I expected to see was a wasteland full of debris and encroachment. But what I saw gave me hope. I could see a bunch of volunteers waist-deep in mud. They were planting mangrove saplings along the edges of the creek.

In fact, I remember meeting a college student—I believe her name was Meera. She looked at me and said, ‘If mangroves are Mumbai's green walls, if we can restore them, they will save us.’

Another story I can think of, and this is very interesting, is about a man named Afroz Shah. In 2015, on a quiet Sunday morning, he walked onto Versova Beach with nothing but a pair of gloves and a determination to make a difference.

What did he do? He started picking up plastic, broken bottles, and trash from the beach. He kept doing that every weekend. Initially, people ignored him—they thought he was a lunatic. But soon, people started to realize what he was doing. Volunteers joined him—children, school students. Everyone started joining him.

Right now, a single man, Afroz Shah, has created something that has transformed Versova Beach into the world's largest beach cleanup. In just two years, volunteers removed over 5 million kilograms of plastic.

Fatou Ndiaye

Initiatives like this mangrove reforestation and beach cleanups show how collective action can concretely impact the intertwined challenges of development and climate change. On a related topic, there is waste management and recycling. While precise figures vary, the recycling industry is undoubtedly a significant contributor to Mumbai's economy and has the potential for further expansion. Rohan shared vivid details on how recycling initiatives have been taken to another level in Mumbai's Dharavi community.

Rohan Agarwal

Dharavi is a recycling economy and a world of its own. It's a place where waste becomes opportunity. Discarded materials are given a new life. In fact, I'll give you an example of a guy I met a few years ago. His name was Javed, and he was a second-generation recycler who ran a small workshop in a dingy locality in Dharavi. He had a team of workers—all those people, the poor, the uneducated—who lived in Dharavi. This team of workers would sort the plastic and metal, clean it, melt it, and mold this waste into pallets, which were later used to create furniture, toys, and packaging material. In fact, I remember he was very proud when he told me that in Dharavi, nothing goes to waste. What we, as urban rich folk, see as waste, they see as wealth, and they convert this garbage into, as I said, a billion-dollar economy. In fact, Dharavi recycles over 80% of Mumbai's plastic waste. Not only that, it employs nearly a quarter of a million people.

Fatou Ndiaye

Mumbai's mangrove reforestation efforts, its organized cleanup initiatives, and its phenomenal recycling efforts are making a difference and could inspire innovators striving to crack climate-related challenges. They present a global best practice that visitors to Mumbai should make a point of seeing.

Our journey through Mumbai comes to a close. Hopefully, thanks to the insights and perspectives shared by our guests, we've seen that Mumbai is more than a city—it's a microcosm of the challenges and opportunities faced by megacities worldwide. It's a city in progress, evolving rapidly and boldly toward the future it has envisioned, and in many ways, leading the way for other megacities.

No one is fully equipped to address the new world challenges being faced in Mumbai and other megacities—neither the best CEOs in the world, nor the world's best academics, nor the best scientists. But what we've learned from Sumeet, Professor Rao, and Rohan is that the solutions may lie in understanding these changes through new lenses.

At the Impact Company Lab, we believe that by building new social bridges, growing our cultural fluency, and adopting deeper, multidimensional, and multidisciplinary perspectives, we will make better, more informed decisions.
 

Thank you for joining us on this journey through Mumbai.

Stay tuned for our next episode of BOLD Thinkers, where we continue to explore the voices of megacities that will be a critical part of our collective future.

For more information on the HEC Paris Impact Company Lab, or if you are interested in collaborating with us on learning, testing, and scaling impact solutions in the megacities of the Global South, please visit us online or contact us at impactcompanylab@hec.fr.

Thank you.